Too Much Oil?pinto With Shortened Sump

[Guest jacques.vins]

My newly bought RH EXMO with 2 L Pinto motor has a shortened sump - does one fill it with less oil now than originally? If so, how much oil is required. Secondly, if less oil is required, but original quantity was used would this cause the starter motor to turn over the motor in a more ` laboured `way - that is more slowly and lead to difficult starting? She`s fine once she`s warm - turns over and fires nearly immediately then.

 

Many thanks for any advice,

 

Jacques.

 

07553485183

 

jacqes.vins@yahoo.com

[Dave R]

same level as the original dipstick.......

has the sump just been shortened, or has it an extension to put some capacity back ??

[Guest Ian Maycock]

Dave is right, use the same amount a the manuals say its the oils circulating thats important.

 

If the sump has been shortened then the dipstick is likely to have been shortened as well. The best thing to do is drian the oil, fit a new filter and then measure out the required amount of oil. Turn over the engine to circulate the oil. Turn off and leave to rest for 10 minutes then place in the dipstick and mark off the level by scoring with a hacksaw blade. This will give you a benchmark for regular checking in the future.

.

[Big Jim]

Iggy, you're completely wrong!

Shortening the sump should make no difference to where the level of oil comes to. It will only make a difference to the amount of oil needed to bring it to the dipstick level after draining the sump however.

 

Shortening the sump is to give more clearance over the Great British sleeping policeman and his friends.

This will obviously reduce the amount of oil in the "reservoir" but by adding an extension to the side/front of the shortened sump you will regain some of that lost amount.

 

The dipstick measures the top level of the oil, it's Maximum mark is the top most level that you should fill up to, leaving enough room for the crankshaft and journals to wizz around at 000's of revs without coming into contact with the oil in the sump pan.

Change that level higher and you risk the crankshaft & con-rod bits splashing nicely around in the oil, quickly whipping it up to a nice froth which will do you engine not a lot of good quick style!

 

Use the standard dipstick just as it was, do not shorten it or remark it, bring the oil level to the top mark, don't go over it. job done.

[richardm6994]

Big Jim's complete right. I have a shorten sump on a pinto and the dipstick is as original which you must not fill oil above the max marker.

 

If your sump has not got side extension which adds the oil capacity back to the sump from what was removed when the sump was shortened, then you will be running with a lesser volume of oil than originally designed, and as such this could get hotter than standard. If the oil gets too hot, firstly it will not do it's job as well as it should, but also it will be a lot thinner and as such you will loose oil pressure.

 

I ran an oil cooler on mine as it didn't have the sump extensions, however after a while I sold the oil cooler and now I simply run with less oil. I have an oil pressure gauge which never drops below 15psi and I'm not having any problems with the oil overheating. My sump has been cut short level with the bottom of the bellhousing.

[Guest Ian Maycock]

Jim

 

How can shortening the sump not alter the level of the oil in relation to the dipstick? If the sump is shortened that it is obviously going to raise the level of the oil up the original dipstick thats assuming that the dipstick doesnt bottom out on the sump before it is fully inserted. If the capacity remains the same with the side extension then surely the level on the dipstick needs adjustment!

[Guest Ian & Carole]

No. Iggy "shortened sump means reduced oil capacity"

 

You need to think in reverse on this one.

 

Imagine that the oil level is measured as the air gap from engine top to the max oil level mark on the dipstick, and this is the higest up the crankcase (BLOCK if you prefare) side that the oil is allowed to be.

 

Even if the sump was 10 feet deep holding 20 gallons of oil

 

you must not allow the oil to be any higher up the inside of the engine

 

or like "BIG JIM" says the crankshaft will start hitting the oil causing a foam effect, massive increase in crankcase pressure and total failiure of all engine seals and possible total engine faliure.

 

This is one of the reasons why in "wet sump" compertition engines baffles are fitted,

a to prevent oil and crank meeting on corners,and

b to prevent oil surge and pick up finding air and not oil.

 

You have to get it in you mind set that the dipstick full mark is the higest the oil level is allowed with in the engine, that is why side or front add on capacity is some times used.

Hope that makes sence.

Reduced capacity won't be a massive problem raised oil level WILL.

[Guest sandy77uk]

Hold on a second, I have the race line sump on a zetec, I was told to do exactly what iggy said

[Guest Ian & Carole]

Hold on a second, I have the race line sump on a zetec, I was told to do exactly what iggy said

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Longboarder]

I have the raceline sump as well and the standard zetec dip stick. For the five years I have run this I fill to the standard full mark on the unaltered dip stick.

Think that the dipstick hangs off the block and dangles in the sump without touching the bottom. It's there to measure where the top surface of the oil is.

Whoever told you to change the level is wrong. And if that is someone at raceline or GBS or Lewis Hamiltons mechanic they're still wrong.

 

Nigel

 

Sandy, go buy a standard zetec dipstick. If it hits the bottom of the raceline sump (Mine doesn't) cut a few millimetres off the tip. Dont alter the level marks.

[Guest Ian & Carole]

Thank you Nigel

[Guest Ian Maycock]

well now i am stumped or should i sumped?

 

i changed my sump a couple of years ago (including the wing to compensate for loss of capacity) the dipstick would not go in all the way and had to be shortend so that it would. i then filled the sump with required quantity of oil and compared this to the existing marks and the witness mark where to oil came up to. i then marked the dipstick to this level. i have run this for over two years with an oil pressure gauge and have never had a problem with excess presure.

[Guest sandy77uk]

I have the raceline sump as well and the standard zetec dip stick. For the five years I have run this I fill to the standard full mark on the unaltered dip stick.

Think that the dipstick hangs off the block and dangles in the sump without touching the bottom. It's there to measure where the top surface of the oil is.

Whoever told you to change the level is wrong. And if that is someone at raceline or GBS or Lewis Hamiltons mechanic they're still wrong.

 

Nigel

 

Sandy, go buy a standard zetec dipstick. If it hits the bottom of the raceline sump (Mine doesn't) cut a few millimetres off the tip. Dont alter the level marks.

 

I have the standard stick, I was told to put 5 litres of oil in and mark the dipstick with a new level line

[Longboarder]

That shows you where the level is on the stick if you add 5 litres Sandy. And thats all it tells you. It doesn't tell you if it is a safe level. It may well be dependant on the volume and shape of the new sump. Ford with their original dipstick tell you what the safe level is. It's the acceptable distance between the whirling machinery and the top of the oil.

Interestingly Ford service details list 4.5L for an initial fill with a dry filter. So 5 litres is not a magic number, it's more than the standard fill. Fine if there is more capacity in a raceline sump than fords offering. Raising the oil level from normal is still a dangerous thing. May even make the engine run cooler in the nicely finned ally raceline sump. Not a good thing as zetecs like to run hot.

 

Nigel

[Andy Cook]

Oil in a sump has to do two things:

• Be high enough to be sucked up by the pick up pipe,
  
• Be low enough not to touch the crankshaft.
  

This is what the two marks are for on a dipstick.

 

Assuming you haven’t shorted your pick up pipe (or lowed your crankshaft) these marks should remain the same.

 

 

Andy